From: "Strong, Lee" <StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL>
To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Got Milk?
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:54:56 -0500
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>

	Ted, Thank you for correcting my chronology.  O.K.  Shaver might
have been influenced by speculation about atomic warfare etc. prior to the
1950s.  As for proving Shaver's influence on _The Time Machine (1960)_, I
said this was merely speculation and therefore I don't feel a need for a
detailed defense.  I can show, as a general proposition, that real people
pick up and adopt ideas from people that they claim to hold in complete
contempt so I can not rule out a POSSIBLE Shaverian influence on _The Time
Machine (1960)_.  Since H.G. Wells wrote at least one atomic warfare story
as well as the original novel about dehumanized humans living underground,
one might speculate further that Wells influenced Shaver who influenced the
script of _The Time Machine_.
	You also wrote that you are incredulous that I would dignify the
ravings of the lunatic in this fashion.  I take that as a complement to my
good taste.  However, I don't have a Geiger counter that enables me to
separate stupid stuff from smart stuff at a distance.  So, I read lots of
stuff and analyze it according to my best understanding of how the universe
works so that I can categorize the stuff accurately.  If you would like to
discuss my arcane hobby further, fine, but it sounds like you are reading
more into it than I do.  In the meantime, please recommend a good book or
website that discusses the Shaver Mystery accurately and completely.  Thank
you again.

Your friend, Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted White [mailto:tedwhite at compusnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:26 PM
To: WSFA members
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Got Milk?

"Strong, Lee" wrote:

>         Ted, Please have a glass of milk on me.  I have not actually read
> Shaver's original printed materials but I have read digests or recaps of
his
> theories.  I speculate that his theories of underground civilizations
> populated by dehumanized robots may have been influenced by 1950s ideas of
> nuclear warfare and survival in underground bunkers-forts-cities, and, in
> turn, may have influenced the development of the 1960 movie _The Time
> Machine_ which went considerably beyond Wells in this direction.

Yes, you already said that.  And I remain incredulous that you'd dignify the
ravings of a lunatic in this fashion.  The moreso because your chronology is
all
wrong.  Shaver's "Shaver Mystery" stories were originally published in
AMAZING
in 1946 and 1947, reaching a climax with the "Shaver Mystery Issue" of July,
1947.   Obviously these could not "have been influenced by 1950s ideas of
nuclear warfare and survival in underground bunkers-forts-cities."

And before you can claim Shaver's influence on the 1960 TIME MACHINE movie
I'd
think you'd need to demonstrate that anyone connected with that movie knew
of
him -- and didn't hold him in complete contempt.

--Ted White