From: "Erica VD Ginter" <eginter at klgai.com> To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: equal pay Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:04:46 -0500 Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> After all these years you still surprise me, Lee! I had no idea you'd gone to library school! My mother is a librarian and I considered a library career myself. Maybe you'd manage to alphabetize us Dutch correctly! Erica -----Original Message----- From: Strong, Lee [mailto:StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:27 AM To: 'WSFA members' Subject: [WSFA] Re: equal pay One of the refreshing experiences in my life was attending library science school where a majority of your professional peers are women. Originally, librarianship was considered a "man's job" just like all other 19th Century professions. However, the founder of modern library science, Melvil Dewey, admitted women to study librarianship on an equal, nondiscriminatory basis with men. Women flooded into a field where they were treated with respect, and, as a result, librarianship is now often considered a "traditionally" "woman's job." Real life is wonderful because it refuses to conform to expectations. -----Original Message----- From: lee gilliland [mailto:leeandalexis at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:19 AM To: WSFAlist at keithlynch.net Subject: [WSFA] Re: equal pay Why do you think secretarial wages are so low? ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Strong, Lee" <StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL> Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: equal pay Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:14:43 -0500 If economic decisions were based on pure rationality, then cost conscious employers would prefer to employ inexpensive women rather than expensive men. -----Original Message----- From: lee gilliland [mailto:leeandalexis at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:28 AM To: WSFAlist at keithlynch.net Subject: [WSFA] Re: equal pay It would arguably be irrational to pay people unequally based purely on gender, if all else is equal, and if gender were not itself relevant to the job. But if productivity differs from worker to worker, that could be a rational basis for unequal pay for the same job. Trying to ban irrational behavior begs the moral question of whether people have the right to be a bit irrational with their own resources, and raises the practical objection that opinions and perceptions about what is rational and fair may honestly differ. Sir, you are begging the question. If it were done on a case-by-case basis, there would not be any problem - but it is NOT. The practices described are real - otherwise the employment commission would not be in business. There is strong historical evidence of deliberate refusal to pay people for equal work if they are female. This is fact, not theory. Most jobs, as you suggest, are not well-suited to being paid on commission, piecework, or by tips, so the employer is left to estimate productivity and quality of work. Employment should be a voluntary relationship. The employee is selling labor, and the employer is buying labor. The terms of the transaction should be freely negotiable. Both the employer and the employee should be free to agree to mutually acceptable terms. And I can tell that you have no kids to support - for I have been in positions where I had no choice - accept this temporarily with a lower wage, or let my kid go hungry. This is not an unusual dilemmas for people with families who MUST take what they can get. You think those Untouchables in India ENJOY cleaning out latrines with their hands? I don't see the U.S. as being chock full of employers scheming to pay women workers less than the men, but such an employer would be making a bad business decision, in part because it would bad for morale. As I understand economics, wages in a free market tend to be set by the forces of supply and demand, and employers who insist on making irrational wage offers are working against their own economic success. Again, sir, you know not whereof you speak. You don't see it because you have no need to. Women KNOW this goes on. How? We EXPERIENCE it - something that you have never done. _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________