From: "Strong, Lee" <StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL>
To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: The Constitution and the Citizen
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:44:17 -0400
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>

	I skimmed the websites provided.  This charge that thousands of
people have disappeared as a result of post-9/11 arrests simply is not true.
According to the Rabih Haddad website, which only contains information
provided by his friends and supporters without giving the other side of the
story, Mr. Haddad was arrested for specific nonpolitical immigration law
violations and is in contact with his lawyer.  Arresting people suspected of
a nonpolitical crime hardly constitutes tyranny.
	The _Dawn_ newspaper and website is put together by people who
scapegoat us because they're not allowed to criticize their own governments.
I treat these people seriously as human beings but I reject their arguments.
	Everyone debating this subject needs to remember the story of the
Boy Who Cried Wolf.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Smith [mailto:sgs at aginc.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:48 PM
To: WSFA members
Subject: [WSFA] Re: The Constitution and the Citizen

"Strong, Lee" wrote:
>
>         Both fascinating and reassuring.  Some 18th and 19th Century
issues
> are effectively dead, but the issue of individual rights versus the
central
> state is very much live.

And, I sincerely hope, will continue to live.  This is possibly the
single most important question in the entire philosophy of government.
And, like any philosophical question, there is no one right answer.

>  I disagree with people shooting at park rangers
> unless the ranger is guilty of a specific crime and even then the
> hypothetical criminal ranger should be arrested and tried, not arbitrarily
> shot.  That's what we have police, courts and elections for.

Current philosophy is that it is *never* appropriate to shoot at anybody
who could be considered to be any kind of law enforcement.  No
exceptions.

>         As a current civil servant, I believe that our mutual interests in
> government are best met by a constitutional and effective government of
> limited power, not an all powerful one.  Having only limited power is a
> great aid to using it wisely and morally.

Another important factor that seems to be getting lost in the post-9/11
panic is accountability.  One of the worst features of the so-called
PATRIOT act is that many of the "anti-terror" provisions have no
accountability and no right of appeal.  Consider -- between 1200 and
2000 people have been "disappeared" as being releted to the attacks.
Suspects?  No.  "Material witnesses at risk of flight"?  No.  Why?  "No
comment".  Rabih Haddad (http://aa-peacemaking.quaker.org/haddad.html)
is probably the best known case.

For an interesting view of the PATRIOT act, see "America under siege" by
Zia-ul-Islam, http://www.dawn.com/2001/11/05/op.htm#2

--
Steve Smith                                           sgs at aginc.net
Agincourt Computing                            http://www.aginc.net
"Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."