From: "Strong, Lee" <StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL> To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: The Constitution and the Citizen Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:55:45 -0400 Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> Haddad's crime is a real, nonpolitical crime that he actually committed. The website you introduced into this discussion admits that. It is legitimate to arrest a person on one crime that he has actually committed even if you think he is ALSO guilty of another. The US Government nailed Al Capone for tax violations, not murder, racketeering, etc. Further, the site admits that Mr. Haddad is in communication with his lawyer, a Congressman, the media, etc., etc. He is clearly not being held incommunicado and accusations of Nazi-like tyranny and "disappearances" are simply not appropriate. Concerning Islamic charities being accessories to terrorism, some are, some aren't. Unlike some, I do not automatically rule the statement that Haddad's charity is a supporter of terrorism out of the discussion. Concerning the misnamed Irish Republican Army, they've had a sharp drop in contributions by Americans since 9/11, Americans who voluntarily realized that their money wasn't going where they thought it was. Don't know the story of the Camel with the Cold Nose. Please share it with me, inshallah. I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow. Have fun without me. Lee -----Original Message----- From: Steve Smith [mailto:sgs at aginc.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:27 PM To: WSFA members Subject: [WSFA] Re: The Constitution and the Citizen "Strong, Lee" wrote: > > I skimmed the websites provided. This charge that thousands of > people have disappeared as a result of post-9/11 arrests simply is not true. > According to the Rabih Haddad website, which only contains information > provided by his friends and supporters without giving the other side of the > story, Mr. Haddad was arrested for specific nonpolitical immigration law > violations and is in contact with his lawyer. Arresting people suspected of > a nonpolitical crime hardly constitutes tyranny. Yeah, can't trust those Quakers. Haddad's "crime" was a trivial violation of immigration laws. Basically, his visa expired while he was waiting for the INS to process his application for permanent resident alien status. (Do US immigration laws and their enforcement need some serious reform? Yahsureyoubetcha. Another topic.) There are probably tens of thousands of other people in the same position. His real "crime" (which he has not been charged with) is raising funds for a "terrorist" organization. Note that under the PATRIOT act, giving money to a "terrorist organization" is, in itself, "terrorism", whether you know where the money is going or not. Even if the organization was declared "terrorist" *after* you gave them money. (Prima facie unconstitutional, IMHO. I can't wait for the FBI to start busting Irish-Americans who donate money to IRA related groups.) > The _Dawn_ newspaper and website is put together by people who > scapegoat us because they're not allowed to criticize their own governments. > I treat these people seriously as human beings but I reject their arguments. Scapegoating?? Dawn, the largest English- language newspaper in Pakistan, is very strongly pro-American. The impression that I get of Pakistani politics is that President Musharraf and cronys are trying to be modern, progressive, sensible national leaders. Unfortunatley, other elements in Pakistan are nowhere near as progressive. The Pakistani intellegence service (the ISI), in particular, is a "government within a government", and was the strongest supporter of the Taliban. Musharraf is putting himself in a fair amount of danger by his support of American actions. > Everyone debating this subject needs to remember the story of the > Boy Who Cried Wolf. And the Camel with the Cold Nose. -- Steve Smith sgs at aginc.net Agincourt Computing http://www.aginc.net "Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."