Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl at keithlynch.net> To: WSFAlist at keithlynch.net Subject: [WSFA] On Google and WSFA policy Cc: jekindell at aol.com, macbuccfo at msn.com, erjablow at cais.com, mike.nelson at seahunt.org Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net> A discussion at the Ginters' last night made it clear to me that we don't have the consensus I thought we did on placing fannish information online, searching for it, and viewing it. Because of the importance of this message, and how seriously people are taking this issue, I'm CCing all the officers who aren't already on this list. Please continue to CC all of them in any replies on this topic. The public web consists of billions of web pages put up by anyone and everyone, including WSFA. Many WSFAns including me also have personal web sites. All public web pages are indexed by Google (http://google.com/) and other search engines. Anyone on the Internet can use Google to search for literally anything. A Google (or similar) search was how Sam Lubell found my "Alternate Disclaves" April Fool's article five years ago. He was scanning for any message mentioning Disclave. He asked my permission to print in the WSFA Journal, which I granted. This ultimately led to my joining WSFA. A Google search was how many people have found WSFA and Capclave in recent years. Most of the hits on the WSFA and Capclave web pages appear to be via Google or other similar search engines, or via manually created indexes such as Yahoo. A Google search was how I found that someone was claiming that Capclave was to be in Laurel this year, allowing me to post the correct information in the same forum. A Google search does NOT find medical records, credit reports, tax records, financial records, military records, social security numbers, credit card numbers, voting records, purchasing records, criminal records, or anything else private. Nor does it find files on your PC, or what web sites you've viewed, or any email that you've sent or received. NONE of this private information is on the public Internet. And I wouldn't read it if it was. Before starting the WSFA list, I asked if people want it to to be findable via Google. The consensus was NO. Therefore, it's not. The list archives (http://www.wsfa.org/list/ , mirrored on http://keithlynch.net/wsfa/list/) should be viewable only by people who have been informed of that URL. And nobody should have been informed of that URL except on this list. Before placing WSFA Journals and information about past Disclaves online, I asked if people want it to to be findable via Google. I believed that the consensus was YES, except that street addresses should be blanked out. Therefore, it is. We currently have over six years of WSFA Journals online, and I'm slowly working toward ultimately placing ALL of them online. And Google and similar search engines are how most people who are viewing them are finding them. I believe one of the greatest strengths of the web is the links. It's wonderful to be able to follow almost any word or phrase, to get more information. I make extensive use of this in my personal web pages and in WSFA's web pages. For instance when I heard that Laurell K. Hamilton was giving a reading at Bailey's Crossroads Borders Books, I used Google to find a web page for her, and to find a web page for that store, and I added them as links to the announcement in our list of upcoming events. When I heard that Mario Livio of the Space Telescope Science Institute was giving a talk at the The Philosophical Society of Washington at the Cosmos Club near the Dupont Circle Metro station, I used Google and other methods to find web pages for Mario Livio, the Space Telescope Science Institute, The Philosophical Society of Washington, the Cosmos Club, and the Dupont Circle Metro station, and I made all of them links from our announcement. When I placed information on past Disclaves online, I used Google to attempt to find web pages for every person listed as a guest of honor, program participant, or committee member, and I made links to those pages from the Disclave pages. I also attempted to find any pages relating to that Disclave. Some people have reminiscences, con reports, or photo albums of old Disclaves online. I'm sure they want them to be seen by people interested in the history of Disclave. And I'm happy to oblige. I am a relative newcomer to WSFA. I've only been attending meetings for about five years. By reading old WSFA Journals, fanzines, Disclave reports, and similar publicly accessible fannish material I feel I can get to know WSFA members better. I feel honored when people read my old writings, and things written about me. At the Worldcon in San Francisco nine years ago, my brother (whom some of you met at Fifth Friday) bought a CD-ROM from Brad Templeton. Among much else, it proved to contain the archives of the old SF-LOVERS email list. By searching it, he found postings of mine I had made more than a decade earlier. Postings of hundreds of other people were also on that disc. Brad Templeton did not ask permission of any of those people, but as far as I know he got no complaints from any of them. Until last night I had no idea anyone would be bothered by the viewing of old fannish material. And I'm frankly flabbergasted that anyone would not merely object, but would object vehemently with claims that it was "about three steps from rape" and was in violation of the law. Especially when it was on a site run by another WSFAn! It's probably a good idea for everyone to do a Google search for their own name, just to see what information is available online. Chances are, unless you have a very unusual name, there's no way for anyone to tell which references actually apply to you anyhow. For instance a Google search on "Keith Lynch" reveals that he is a forestry professor in Kansas, the editor of "Building Your Mate's Self-Esteem" and "Teaching Your Children about Sex," a professional guitar player in California, a movie editor in Britain, the owner of a car repair shop in Arizona, a hydrologist at NOAA in Wakefield Virginia, a saxophonist in Houston, a salesman in St. Louis, a prize-winning weight lifter in Florida, a member of Blue Ridge Toastmasters, a Liberal Democrat Councillor in Lash Hill Ward, a member of the Texas Sheepdog Association, and a radio controlled car racer in Pennsylvania, among much else. If you do find anything objectionable that mentions your name, you should take it up with the owner of the offending web page. I don't think it makes sense to instead blame Google or the users of Google. There's a broad consensus on the net that it's perfectly ok to use Google to search the public web for anything and anyone. I have done so extensively. Until last night I had no idea anyone felt differently. If there is a consensus among WSFAns that certain information on WSFA's web site should not be found with a Google search, we can make our web site accessible only to WSFAns, or we can block out more than just the street addresses, or we could take down the whole site. If there are one or two people who strongly object to anyone searching for their name, we could replace every instance of their name on our web site (e.g. in the old WSFA Journals) with their initials. WSFA doesn't have control over web pages run by others, including other WSFAns. But I'm sure if anyone objected to the information these other WSFAns have made public on their web pages, they would be glad to remove it if politely asked. I do not have any writings by or about any WSFAns (other than myself) on my personal web site, and I never have. So, what's the consensus? What should our web policy be? Thanks.