From: "Strong, Lee" <StrongL at MTMC.ARMY.MIL>
To: "'WSFA members'" <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Culture hi, culture lo
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:42:41 -0400
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at keithlynch.net>

	Ted, Thank you for your explanation of "noir."  Previously, I had
understood that the term referred to any "dark" literature, not a specific
school.  Yah learn something new everyday.
	Next questions, what perceived realities do "grit" and "punk" reveal
or express?
	And the way that I frame my questions is intended to acknowledge
that, being human, I have my biases but am not afraid to put them on the
table for my respondant to see and evaluate.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted White [mailto:tedwhite at compusnet.com]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:25 PM
To: WSFA members
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Culture hi, culture lo

"Strong, Lee" wrote:

>         Ted, I'm asking the question to spark a discussion.  Is
> grit/noir/punk good?  And, if so, why?  Some say that noir is realistic.
Is
> it really, or does it merely appeal to a selfish desire to see others who
> are worse off than we are?

The way you frame this question clearly indicates your answer to it, but I
reject the question as based on false assumptions.  "Grit," "noir" and
"punk"
are neither synonymous nor descriptive of the same thing.  They do not
reflect a
common sensibility.

All, however, are attempts to strip away bland or glossy packaging and
reveal a
perceived reality.  None are airbrushed.  But the perceived realities each
seeks
to reveal are different.

"Noir" is the relevent term for any movie discussion which concerns
BLADERUNNER;
the term is a French film critics' after-the-fact description of a style of
'40s
"B" movie.  In other words, it is the "academic" term applied to Hollywood
gangster movies (all shot in black & white for budgetary reasons -- the "B"
referred to the lower budget) by foreign students of Hollywood films roughly
a
decade after those films were made.  Those gangster movies tended toward a
perversely romantic view of the seamier side of society -- as imagined by
filmmakers with little real experience of it.   I think that sums up
BLADERUNNER
as well -- although it wasn't shot in b&w.

As for whether noir "merely appeal[s] to a selfish desire to see others who
are
worse off than we are," that's not at all what noir is supposed to be about.

--Ted White