Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl at KeithLynch.net> To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> Subject: [WSFA] Quote marks Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> There's been a discussion in rasff (the rec.arts.sf.fandom newsgroup) recently about quote marks. On typewriters, and, in my experience, on computers, there's only one kind of double quote. It's character 34 in the ASCII code, it looks like this: " and it's used not just for quotations but also as an abbreviation for inches, and for seconds of arc. It's also used in HTML tags, and in various computer languages. In books and magazines, on the other hand, there are two kinds of double quote marks -- an opening quote mark and a closing quote mark. They usually curve differently. The claim was recently made in rasff that fanzines that don't use separate opening and closing quote marks are "crudzines," not worth reading. This is not something I tend to notice, but apparently it's important to some people. So I did some research. The oldest book I have -- from 1860 -- uses separate opening and closing quote marks. So does the newest book, printed this month. So do all but one of the many books I've checked, and all of the professionally printed magazines I checked. How about fanzines? Ansible does. Mimosa did. Das Fangold does not. How about the WSFA Journal? Sam Lubell's WSFA Journals did. But none of the previous editors' WSFA Journals did. The two issues I've published so far do not. ASCII is missing these codes. Microsoft's proprietary incompatible "extension" of ASCII has them, but looks like utter garbage to anyone not running Microsoft software, so that's no good. Fortunately, it appears that HTML has them, which is what's important, since web pages are in HTML. (Unlike Sam, I create each issue as a web page, and print it from that.) To lynx users like me, they display as regular ASCII quotes. Do they look like the right thing to users of Netscape, Internet Explorer, Mozilla, Opera, Mosaic, and Konqueror? If you're using one of these browsers -- or one I haven't mentioned -- please look at the minutes of the last two meetings, at http://www.wsfa.org/minutes.htm. I just replaced the HTML codes for the plain old ASCII quotes with the HTML codes for the fancy quotes marks in it. If everyone agrees that it looks better, or at least that it looks no worse, I will produce subsequent WSFA Journals using fancy quotes. I will also replace ordinary quotes with fancy quotes whenever I happen to update a web page on our site for any other reason. (I won't bother to edit a page just to replace them.) I will continue to use the plain quote marks in the old pre-Lubell WSFA Journals, since that's what they used. If Sam would like, I will replace all the plain quotes with fancy quotes in all 92 of his issues, since he used fancy quotes in all 92 issues (or at least the several I checked, including his first and last issues). I don't plan to update my July and August issues online, since the hardcopy versions didn't use the fancy quotes, and I'd prefer to keep the online and hardcopy versions as nearly identical as possible. (None of the above has anything to do with *single* quotes. ASCII has always had two kinds of those: characters 96 and 39, which look like ` and '.)