Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:04:54 -0500
To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org>
From: "Mike B." <omni at omniphile.com>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Portland
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org>

As I said, I don't want to argue this yet again, but you asked some
questions and had some misimpressions, so I'll respond only to clarify what
I said previously.  No new arguments here so feel free to move along
without worry about missing anything...

At 04:50 AM 3/13/05 -0500, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>"Mike B." <omni at omniphile.com> wrote:
>
>> It isn't useful for me to get to either meeting place.  I'd have to
>> drive 8 miles to the nearest Metro station (or walk a mile to the
>> nearest bus stop, and spend up to an hour or so on the bus getting
>> to the Metro station after paying whatever the bus costs), ...
>
>Ok, it's not useful for you, considering where you've chosen to live.
>It is useful for those WSFA members who choose to live in the greater
>DC area.

I live in the greater DC area...just south of Rockville.

>To say that Metro is only useful for going to downtown DC is just
>wrong.  There are Metro stations all over the region.

I must have missed the Frederick station, the one in Comus, and the one in
Sterling...

>> How do you get to Sugarloaf to go hiking?
>
>That isn't in any of the cities or counties I mentioned, i.e. it's not
>in the DC area.

Oops, you're right.  It's on the border of Montgomery County, but on the
Frederick county side.  Ok, how about Little Bennet Regional Park?  Same
area, but in Montgomery County, on the other side of I-270 from Sugarloaf.

>> Then we agree, except for the "civilization" thing.  Forcing
>> everyone to live in cities isn't an option.
>
>By "cities" I meant to include the suburbs.

Can't make everyone live there either, and public transit doesn't work well
for the suburbs anyway...I live in the suburbs.

>Your SUV probably works better offroad than an average car.  But how
>about on a narrow road with heavy traffic?  When I'm biking on such a
>road, regular cars can squeeze by me, but SUVs typically can't.

My SUV isn't any bigger than most cars.  It's bigger than a compact car,
but so am I...

>And what happens when you have to suddenly steer to avoid an
>obstruction?  SUVs are more prone to tip over than average cars.

Mine handles very well...better than most cars.  The center of gravity
isn't way up in the air like with some and the suspension is designed well.
 It's a whole lot better than those little Suzuki jeep-like things that
often had bumper stickers put on upside down that said, "If you can read
this, please roll me over."

>And get worse gas mileage.

True enough.  Around town I get 14mpg.  Highway it's 18-20.  On the other
hand, I don't drive as much as most people do, so total gas
cost/consumption is probably about the same or lower as for the average car
in this area.  I got it in October of 1997 and it's just about to roll over
50,000 miles now.  Working at home since 1999 really helped with that, and
getting the Harley year before last helped some more (Harley gets 36 in
stop and go traffic and 45 highway...got almost 7000 miles on it now).

>> You keep ignoring my point that "everyone" can't make use of any
>> conceivable public transit system no matter how many seats it has
>> or how often it runs.
>
>Almost everyone except farmers and those who need to carry hundreds
>of pounds of stuff with them to random locations at random times,
>e.g. refrigerator repairmen.

The only people who can use public transit are blind cripples who live and
work in downtown areas of New York City.  That statement is at least as
accurate as the one you wrote above...

>>> It seems to encourage criminal behavior, based on how many drivers
>>> routinely violate traffic laws.
>
>> Same is true of the tax laws, anti-jaywalking laws, litter laws, and
>> public transit (I'm sure you've heard the various scams for cheating
>> Metro?).
>
>Those aren't the sorts of crimes that get innocent people killed.

So there's never been a crash caused by a jaywalker?  I doubt that.  Nobody
has ever slipped on litter and hit their head hard enough to kill them?  As
for tax laws, tell that to Al Capone...

Besides, you said "criminal behavior", not "crimes that get innocent people
killed".  Don't change the argument just because it gets holes shot in it.
Like this one:  most traffic violations aren't crimes in the first place.
They are civil offenses or even "administrative infractions"...much easier
to convict that way.

>> We have enough oil here, and we can make more if we want to.  It's
>> just cheaper to buy it from the Middle East for now.
>
>Then why the long lines at gas pumps, and the odd and even days, when
>OPEC decided to stop selling us oil for a while?

To raise the price and convince the government to ok some new refineries.
We had plenty of oil at that time...there were ships sitting off the coast
that couldn't unload because the storage tanks were all full (according to
some news reports at the time anyway).  We didn't have an oil shortage, we
had a refinery shortage.  The oil companies were getting blocked by
environmental regulations and couldn't build more.  The OPEC thing was an
excuse to leverage those through the system.  As soon as the price went up
and the refineries were ok'd, we suddenly had no shortage.

>> There are folks working on alternative plans though...like hydrogen
>> fuel cells, which are almost ready for prime time.
>
>Where's the hydrogen supposed to come from?  My understanding is it's
>usually extracted from petroleum.

I'd split it from water using solar in areas of the country that have
plenty of that (the southwest for instance) or cheap hydro-electric power.
You can also get it from other places, but electrolyzing water is really
simple...I've done it in my bedroom as a kid with a battery and some carbon
electrodes I got out of old D-cells.  Getting it from oil is one of the
dumbest ideas I've ever heard, and must have been proposed by someone with
a vested interest in hydrogen not being adopted as a fuel...or at least in
not de-centralizing fuel production (you can make your own hydrogen at
home, you don't need to buy it from a "hydrogen company"...unlike with oil).

>And how
>have I managed to do without any such ID?  (Well, ok, I do have an

You take the bus rather than the train or planes when going between cities.
 When the busses start insisting on ID too, you'll stay home a lot
more...or yield and get an ID.  If certain bills before Congress pass,
you'll get an ID anyway...see Ron Paul's web site for some info on that.

-- Mike B.
--

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
 bribe the people with their own money."

  -- Alexis de Tocqueville