Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:53:23 -0500
To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org>
From: "Mike B." <omni at omniphile.com>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Combined reply
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org>

At 11:28 PM 3/28/05 -0500, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>"Mike B." <omni at omniphile.com> wrote:

>> ... the Web was created in '93...
>
>Nitpick:  1991.  Though it didn't really catch on until 1992.
>The net was already over twenty years old at the time.

Nitpick to your nitpick.  Apparently we're both wrong...it was 1989
according to:  http://www.zeltser.com/web-history/ and some other sites.
Of course, at that time it was pretty much an in-house project at CERN,
limited to those associated with them.

This link:
http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history/ivh/chap2.htm#From%20Internet%20to%20Wo
rld%20Wide%20Web

Confirms the 1989 date, but also mentions that 1991 is when it was opened
to the "public", so if that's how you want to define it, you are correct.

1993 is when Mosaic was released, and there was actual 24 hour customer
support for a graphical browser.  That's when commercial use started.  If
that's how you define it, I'm right.

In 1992 there were only 50 web sites in the world...and at the end of 1993
there were still only about 150.  In 1994 there were 3000.  A year later it
was 25,000.  By '97 there were 1.2 million web sites.  The 2001 figure is
at least 30 million.

The W3C web site (http://www.w3.org/Consortium/) says the web was created
in 1989, and the W3C in 1994.

Lots of dates to choose from, depending on how you want to define "origin
of the world wide web".  1989 for first creation, 1991 for public release,
1993 for commercialization or 1994 for the creation of a standards body to
define how it should work all make sense.  I suppose you could even go back
to the creation of the idea of hyperlinks if you want...that would move it
back decades...

>> Prior to that it was mostly universities, the government and
>> government contractors and generally used Unix, ...
>
>Actually, it was mostly TOPS-20, though there were plenty of Unix,
>MVS, MULTICS, ITS, and other systems.  The whole point of the net
>was to enable incompatible systems to communicate.

Are you talking about the net here, or the web?  The first Mosaic was done
on a NeXT machine (unix...Mach kernel I believe).  The net predates TOPS-20
I think.  TOPS-20 was first shipped in 1976
(http://www.opost.com/dlm/tenex/hbook.html), while the internet was started
prior to that.  The first WAN was in 1965
(http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history/ivh/chap2.htm#The%20Creation%20of%20AR
PANET again), and the first ARPAnet setup was in October 1969 between UCLA
and Stanford.  ARPAnet went "public" in 1972.  TCP/IP came in 1974.  Unix
was the primary OS for universities, which were a large part of the early net.

From:

http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history/ivh/chap2.htm#The%20Creation%20of%20ARP
ANET
-----
Meanwhile computer networking developed apace. In 1974 Stanford opened up
Telenet, the first openly accessible public 'packet data service' (a
commercial version of ARPANET). In the 1970s the US Department of Energy
established MFENet for researchers into Magnetic Fusion Energy, which
spawned HEPNet devoted to High Energy Physics. This inspired NASA
physicists to establish SPAN for space physicists. In 1976 a Unix-to-Unix
protocol was developed by AT&T Bell laboratories and was freely distributed
to all Unix computer users (since Unix was the main operating system
employed by universities, this opened up networking to the broader academic
community). In 1979 Usenet was established, an open system focusing on
e-mail communication and devoted to 'newsgroups' is opened, and still
thriving today. In 1981 Bitnet (Because it's Time..) was developed City
University New York to link university scientists using IBM computers,
regardless of discipline, in the Eastern US. CSNet, funded by the US
national Science Foundation was established to facilitate communication for
Computer Scientists in universities, industry and government. In 1982 a
European version of the Unix network, Eunet, was established, linking
networks in the UK, Scandinavia and the Netherlands, followed in 1984 by a
European version of Bitnet, known as EARN (European Academic and Research
Network).

Throughout this period, the world is still fairly chaotic, with a plethora
of competing techniques and protocols. ARPANET is still the backbone to the
entire system. When, in 1982 it finally adopts the TCP/IP the Internet is
born... a connected set of networks using the TCP/IP standard.
------

TOPS-20 was certainly involved in the 70s.  The FTP protocol has a special
transfer mode just to support TOPS-20 for instance, but I doubt that
TOPS-20 systems were the primary systems on the net even in the 70s.

>to send email or files around via obscure and convoluted paths.  Email
>addresses were often bizarrely punctuated with a hodgepodge of at
>signs, percent signs, hyphens, and exclamation points -- as much a
>routing map as a true address.

Yep.  That was replaced by the DNS system and various routing protocols so
that systems could get packets to a given IP address without knowing where
it really was.  DNS lets you translate a host name to the IP address, and
the routers take it from there.  The routers use ARP, GATED, etc. to keep
track of how to get a message to a given IP address.

>Well, I know an "athiest" is someone who doesn't believe in a "diety".

Or, more precisely, believes that there is no such thing.  Lack of belief
is different from belief of lack.  A simple lack of belief without the
belief in a lack is referred to as "agnosticism"...though there are always
people who will argue endlessly about this (I'm not one of them...).

>> I've never seen a honing pigeon, ...
>
>If you ever see one, try to catch it with some duck tape.

Actually, one maker of duct tape (which is not really very good for use on
ductwork...aluminum tape is far superior and more commonly used) does call
their product "duck tape".  Going with the flow I guess.
http://www.duckproducts.com/

>> or maybe the guy is just planning to sharpen his wit before getting
>> to it?
>
>Or to wet his appetite.

On a wet stone?  There's a hole in the bucket... ;-)

>> ... usually back-quote marks, ...
>
>But those *are* part of standard ASCII.  Character 96, right between
>underscore and lowercase "a".  (I used to "type" using a manual hole
>punch on paper tape.)

Sorry, I meant "double quote".  ASCII only has one kind of those.

>> Back when it was just ASCII and EBCDIC it was pretty simple...
>
>Not really, since there were several incompatible versions of EBCDIC,
>several incompatible eight-bit extensions of ASCII,

Don't know about EBCDIC much...never was an IBM guy.  ASCII was a 7-bit
code.  There were lots of ways different folks found to use the 8th bit
once they stopped using it for parity...on home PCs it was usually for a
graphical character set, and yes, they were all different.

>other unrelated codes of various bit lengths from 5 to 12, including
>Correspondence, 026 Hollerith, 029 Hollerith, Baudot, and Murray.

Baudot is older than ASCII I believe.  It was a 5 bit code used with
teletypes.  No need for case there...

-- Mike B.
--
I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!