From: MarkLFischer at aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:07:54 EST Subject: [WSFA] Re: Who said: SF is fantasy with nuts and bolts painted on? To: WSFAlist at WSFA.org Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> In a message dated 4/1/2005 10:56:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, omni at omniphile.com writes: >This is my best attempt to define the differences without just resorting to >the old, "I know it when I see it" definition. I'm well aware that not >everyone will agree with me about it. Feel free to attempt your own >definitions! :-) Most of it IS fantasy, if you look at it from a standpoint of reality. In the example of Niven, teleportation does not exist, hyperspace travel does not exist, General Products #2 hulls do not exist. None of these things may EVER exist, and yet they are essential elements to some of the stories. That's fantasy, regardless of window-dressing. All stories, regardless of genre, are interesting and worthwhile to the extent that they are about humans dealing with human problems. We have real difficulty identifying with anything else. Even the old-fashioned vacuum-tube stuff that George O. Smith and Ralph Farley wrote is still Human Overcoming Obstacles, even though you had to be something of a geek to understand the urgency sometimes. SF and Fantasy still have to follow dramatic rules, however experimental and cutting-edge the work may otherwise be. The four types of conflict are universal: Man vs. Man, Man vs. Nature, Man vs. God, Man vs. Himself. Man is the common element, even if the "Man" in question doesn't look like one. C.J. Cherryh's protagonists in some of her novels aren't human, but they think like we do, once certain postulates are accepted, and we can identify with them. A story about Mxptlk the dexitroboper, who will makplak if the fovoosh doesn't plang, is less readable unless the nonsense words equate to real human concepts. SF and Fantasy deal with the same kind of problem-solving, as well. It's not all wish-fulfillment, everything's-handed-to-you, that's crummy writing no matter what you call it. Well-written fantasy sets the characters in a ruleset as immutable and internally consistent as any in the hardest SF, it's just has different postulates. "Lord of the Rings" is, in my opinion, is a story of self-discovery and heroism, painted with a broader brush than may appeal to the jaded and cynical, but no different from "On Basilisk Station." If Pratchett or Person X made a comment like that, well, it's essentially true, although somewhat snobby. SF folks, to be honest, do the same to them. Mark