From: MarkLFischer at aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:48:51 EST
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Who said: SF is fantasy with nuts and bolts painted on?
To: WSFAlist at WSFA.org
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org>

In a message dated 4/1/2005 2:44:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
omni at omniphile.com writes:

>Small quibble...teleportation does exist.  It's been done in the  lab.  Only
>useful so far if you want to ship quantum particles  though.

That's a reach.  One cannot step into a booth and be whisked  off to another
place, and it's highly unlikely that we will be able to do so  anytime soon.
Teleportation is a McGuffin, just like the Fairy Godmother's  magic wand.

Arguing that something "might happen someday" or "may be happening  somewhere
else" does not alter the fact that for the story's audience, US, HERE,  and
NOW, with the knowledge we have available to us, these things do not and
cannot exist, and are therefore fantasy elements.

>Magic, as it's portrayed in Fantasy, won't (violations of a number  of
>physical laws).

Physical laws as we understand them today.  Magic is not effect  without
cause, it's effect without observable or clearly-understood cause.   Clarke's Law
applies.  The same applies to Science-fictional things such as  warp drives or
time travel as generally portrayed in stories.  Physical  law, as we
understand it, does not allow such things, and yet we accept them as  more "possible"
than the Sorcerer's Apprentice and his mops.

Most SF or Fantasy stories have postulates you have to accept, disbelief to
willingly suspend.  Agreeing to accept, for the duration of the story, that
there are aliens from other worlds is the same as accepting that the correct
incantation can make a carpet fly.  Neither kind of story is set in "our
universe", but in a different one...similar, but with some different  postulates.

>SF has been dealing with things like cloning for decades...and now  it's here
>and we have to figure out how to handle it.  Thanks to SF  there has been
>some thought put into the question ahead of time, with  speculation about
>potential outcomes and uses.

I'm not as impressed with SF's power to prognosticate as you are.
Technological innovation rarely takes the exact form that storytellers  predicted, and
the societal background against which it's set almost never  does.  SF fans
may have thought things out, but that only benefits the SF  fans.  Actual
decision-making happens for political reasons, and is  extremely sensitive to a
range of factors far too broad for most SF  stories.

Many technological titans have been inspired by SF, it is true.   Fantasy
also inspires, although not usually to build rockets.

>Her aliens are some of the most alien aliens I've
>read about  so far.  Some, like the Kif, are nothing at all like  people.
>(snip)when she goes for alien, she goes the whole distance and  does it very
well.

That's why I chose her.  The Kif are very alien, BUT...accept and  understand
the postulates, and they're human as hell.  As we come to  understand how Kif
differ from us, the underlying common factors become very  clear.  Sikkukkut
(who I would certainly consider a main character) is  quite well-drawn, and
easy to identify with, once you get a handle on what makes  Kif peculiar.   Hani
are the same way, regarding their social  structure.

I notice that Cherryh never tried to tell a story from a Knnn point of  view.
 That might prove impossible to read, and almost as hard to  write.

>Fantasy postulates are, in good writing, internally consistent, but
applicable only
>to that world, not the real world.

True, but "Rendezvous with Rama" and "Ringworld" are not set in this world,
either.  All the stories we tell happen in worlds that exist between our
ears.  They may be more or less similar to ours, but they are equally  unreal.

>That tends, for me, to make
>SF more "important", or  maybe "relevant".  Doesn't mean I don't enjoy
>reading fantasy at  times, I do.

How people meet and overcome challenges is always relevant, and happens in
all literature.  I like SF and Fantasy for the imaginative storytelling,  and
for the company of the fine folks who enjoy it with me :-)

Mark