Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:01:02 -0400 To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> From: Candy Madigan <candymadigan at mindspring.com> Subject: [WSFA] Re: Beyond a Great Con... Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> However, I do stand by my stance that violence will not be permitted in my home. If that is a problem for WSFA, then WSFA has a problem. At 02:47 PM 10/17/2005, you wrote: >Let's please not use the calls to end the infighting as the bell to start >round three (or perhaps three thousand). > >I spoke to the Gillilands yesterday. They are not excluding any paid-up >WSFA member from the meeting part of WSFA meetings. That's true for the >Madigans as well. And Ted, I specifically asked about you since I believe >you currently are a paid-up member. > >We don't all have to be best friends, but I think we can all get along >with each other and work together as long as we remember that our fellow >meFrom twhite8 at cox.net Mon Oct 17 19:54:42 2005 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:58:24 -0400 From: Ted White <twhite8 at cox.net> To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> Subject: [WSFA] Re: Beyond a Great Con... Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at WSFA.org> samlubell at verizon.net wrote: > Let's please not use the calls to end the infighting as the bell to > start round three (or perhaps three thousand). > > I spoke to the Gillilands yesterday. They are not excluding any > paid-up WSFA member from the meeting part of WSFA meetings. That's > true for the Madigans as well. And Ted, I specifically asked about > you since I believe you currently are a paid-up member. > > We don't all have to be best friends, but I think we can all get > along with each other and work together as long as we remember that > our fellow members are human too and have feelings that can get hurt > and brains that can misfire, make mistakes, and sometimes fail to > understand what we intended to meanmbers are human too and have feelings that can get hurt and brains that >can misfire, make mistakes, and sometimes fail to understand what we >intended to mean. > Candy (301)345-6635 . Sam, you're being a Pollyanna. I don't think that, much as you'd like to, you can paper this over and pretend the ugliness and viciousness revealed don't really exist. Lee thinks Keith is a stalker and is stalking her. She has held this opinion of Keith since at least the incident on this list a few years ago when he quoted a reference to her from Rich Lynch's on-line outline of the history of fandom in the '60s. It was not a slur or in any way denigrating of Lee, but she objected to it so strenuously that Rich removed it from his outline. This did not stop Lee from accusing Keith of quoting it for neferious purposes (accusations uncannily similar to her recent accusations against him on this list), and telling some of us that he was stalking her because *he had a crush on her*. (Keith was unaware of this last bit until very recently, and laughed at the very thought.) Lee has maintained a grudge against Keith since that years-old incident and has never accepted nor understood the reality of that situation. This is what drove her recent attack on him. Lee recently accused me of "attacking" her and stated that my "attacks" were what had driven her off-list several years ago. I had never attacked her (on any level) during her previous tenure on this list (not even when provoked to do so by lies she told me), and my current transgression is that I affirmed Walter Miles's recent post to this list -- in which I did not myself attack Lee but did support Keith. (Lee also strongly objected, off-list, to my stating that I'd heard no "lies" about ticket availability for SERENITY. I am forced to conclude that in her mind that too was an "attack" on her.) Walter Miles is a pretty mild-mannered guy and not known for controversial stands or strong attacks -- on anyone. But his post here, condemning Lee's attack on Keith and supporting Keith, pushed Lee over the top. I believe he feels as I do, that Lee's presence in WSFA is unhealthy for WSFA. Lee needs an intervention, but I doubt anyone in WSFA feels up to that monumental task. You've spent a lot of time calming her down, but you have not changed the basic situation. Lee remains unapologetic for her statements and actions, and you've done nothing to molify the rest of us. You have not directly communicated with me *at all* and I am an aggrieved party. It's time for you to stand up on your hind legs and give Lee an ultimatum: She does not *own* WSFA. The Gillilands do not have a lock on WSFA's Virginia meetings. It's time to move them and allow the Gillilands to be WSFA members like the rest of us, free to come and depart when they feel like it, but having no fiat over who else may attend. --Ted White