Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:05:23 -0400
To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net>
From: Candy Madigan <candymadigan at mindspring.com>
Subject: [WSFA] Re: Slander
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net>

At 09:15 PM 5/31/2007, you wrote:
>Candy Madigan <candymadigan at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > No, that is not what you were told.  You were told that Elizabeth
> > had to kick you out of a party when it was time to go and that you
> > argued with her about it.  You were not an uninvited guest, you were
> > simply a guest who didn't leave when told to do so.
>
>I was told very similar stories by several people.  Your version
>may not have contained the part about my not being invited, I don't
>recall.  I would of course have preferred to hear it directly from
>Elizabeth, rather than second-hand, but she angrily refused to explain.
>
> > No, this was not since Ravencon, and I told you that at the time.
>
>Yes and no.  When I told you that I was absolutely certain that I
>hadn't been to her condo in years, then you said the event must have
>happened years ago.

No, I *told* you that it happened years ago and that she told me that story
at the Gillilands.

>But of course it makes no sense that she would suddenly become upset
>with me three years after my alleged offense, given that she had
>invited me over at least twice since the last event at her place that
>I didn't leave in the middle of, and at least once since the last
>event at her place that I attended at all.

No, she did not "suddenly" become upset.  It's just that she finally
decided to no longer allow you to crash her invitation only parties.

>I've been to your place 16 times.  Have I ever argued when told it was
>time to go?  Has anyone here ever witnessed me doing anything of the
>sort, anywhere at all, ever?

Different set of circumstances, and I told you *that* too.  There were
people staying the night at her house.  You have frequently been among the
last to go at my house, but everyone was asked to leave when you were asked
to go.  At her house, you were asked to go when you were the last WSFAn
there.  You argued with her about it.  *That* is what she is so upset
about.

>mike.nelson at seahunt.org wrote:
>
> > I was told during Balticon that you had attended Elizabeth's most
> > recent WSFA Fifth Friday meeting (which I ASSUME took place on
> > Friday, 30 March 2007, since that is the most recent fifth Friday).
> > I was told that you and Elizabeth had a disagreement as to when the
> > event was ending.
>
>WSFA's online archives are in too much disarray for me to determine
>who, if anyone, hosted Fifth Friday on March 30th.  What I do know is
>that I went nowhere that day except to work, with a brief side trip to
>a post office.
>
>Was anyone at a Fifth Friday event on that date?  If so, do you
>remember where it was, who was there, and whether anyone refused
>to leave?
>
> > Two other people were still present when Elizabeth asked you to
> > leave.  When Elizabeth explained that the two other people were
> > staying overnight, you allegedly insisted on staying since you felt
> > the event had not ended yet.  Apparently, Elizabeth had to strongly
> > insist that it was time for you to leave.
>
>I trust that everyone here realizes that this would be grossly out of
>character for me.  Not to mention that I haven't been to her condo
>since 2004.

This happened at the last 5th Friday she hosted which was in 2004.  *You*
are the reason she no longer hosts 5th Fridays.

> > Like I said, this is what I heard from someone else.
>
>Thanks.
>
>"Lawhorn, William - BLS" <Lawhorn.William at bls.gov> wrote:
>
> > To all readers please note that this is an issue between
> > individuals.  This is not a WSFA issue.  WSFA does not condone
> > our actions nor have any say in them.
>
>I posted this to WSFA, not because you and Elizabeth are WSFA members,
>but because you and Elizabeth are WSFA *officers* (or will be starting
>tomorrow).  You are the public face of Capclave 2009.  I'm not a WSFA
>member, but I most certainly am a Capclave member.  I've been a member
>of every Disclave and Capclave since 1980, and I'd like to continue
>to have a friendly and pleasant con closer than Baltimore or Richmond.
>I, like many others in and out of WSFA, have worked very hard for
>years to make that possible.
>
>I hope club members think real hard about whether you are really the
>face the club wants to put on Capclave.  It's not as if Capclave could
>afford to lose any more members.  Or as if your irrational outburst in
>your party can be kept secret from fandom.
>
> > The following will NOT be discussed during any WSFA business
> > meeting.  If I am present and it is attempted to be brought up I
> > will note that it is out of order, since it is not WSFA business,
> > and end the matter that way.
>
>Whether people as un-fannish and hostile as you and Elizabeth should
>be WSFA officers most certainly is WSFA business.
>
> > Keith has every right to come to any WSFA event/meeting and even
> > rejoin if he so chooses.
>
>I do not feel welcome there, and as you and Elizabeth both well know,
>I never go anywhere I don't feel welcome.
>
>I would not have been upset if you had spoken to me privately,
>preferably long before the party.  But your actions were humiliating
>to me.  And it's small consolation that you certainly harmed your
>reputation in fandom more than you harmed mine.
>
>I've been called many things, but this is the first time I've ever
>been called "creepy."  If anyone thinks I'm creepy I'd appreciate it
>if they'd tell me, *privately*, explain in what way I'm creepy, and
>suggest what I can do to change this.
>
>I'm friendly (except when attacked), helpful, hard-working, honest,
>tolerant, forthright, discreet, clean (I had taken a shower and put on
>clean clothes that morning), and a great conversationalist with very
>broad interests.  I never go where I'm not welcome.  I don't know what
>more anyone wants of me.  While I certainly understand that I don't
>share everyone's interests, and am likely to wander off from a
>discussion of, say, football, slash, or rock music, I can't think of
>anything I've ever done or failed to do that could possibly justify
>my being publicly treated like some loathsome bug that just crawled in
>from a crack under the toilet.
>
> > As to your response to me.  The use of the F-bomb directed
> > specifically to me and then at others.
>
>You are confused.  I never use that word.
>
> > That is why you will no longer welcome at any "party" that I am
> > hosting or cohosting.
>
>That's unnecessary, as your actions absolutely guaranteed that I would
>never attend any event that you're in charge of, nor recommend any
>such event to others.  That of course includes Capclave '09.
>
> > Now at Ravencon, what you failed to notice is that everytime you
> > entered the parties there, Elizabeth left.  Yes, she left her party
> > so she didn't have to be around you.  She has been doing that for
> > quite a while now.
>
>I didn't notice, because it didn't happen.  I recall having a pleasant
>chat with her at Ravencon.
>
>If she has been avoiding me because of something I did or failed to
>do at a Fifth Friday she hosted three years ago, do you have any
>explanation as to why she only started doing this recently?  Or is
>she claiming I have been to her condo since 2004?  If the latter,
>she's lying.
>
> > The sign I posted on the party board for flyers had a 9:00-?
> > Notation.  Guess what "?" can be 9:01.
>
>Clever.  Be sure to save that thought.  You can reuse it to explain
>and justify actions you will take at your Capclave.  I'm sure WSFA
>will be suitably impressed and forgiving.
>
> > "I promptly left, and did not return."  That statement of course
> > does not include that you walked into the other room of our party
> > before you left.
>
>I left by immediately returning to the hallway, not by entering
>another room.
>
> > Nor does it include that Saturday night, you returned to our private
> > party, and you were again asked to leave.
>
>Wrong.
>
> > "This is the first time in 28 years of going to cons that I've
> > ever been asked to leave an open party."  Fandom is generous and
> > forgiving.
>
>Except for you and Elizabeth.
>
> > No doubt about that.  It is also tolerent, too much so some times.
>
>What exactly have I ever done that has strained anyone's tolerance?
>Defend myself against malicious lies?
>
> > Candy has responded fairly clearly as to what the problem was for
> > Elizabeth.
>
>Candy has said what Elizabeth told her.  That doesn't make what
>Elizabeth told Candy true.  As I said, not only is it false, it isn't
>even remotely plausible.
>
> > I will add that Elizabeth stopped having full WSFA club events at
> > her home because she didn't want to cause a problem.  I was at the
> > party in question, ...
>
>Then perhaps you can tell me what date it was.  If it was three years
>ago, why was I invited by Elizabeth several times since then, and why
>was Elizabeth open and friendly to me as recently as last month?
>
>If you say I was at Elizabeth's condo more recently than 2004, then
>you're not just malicious, but also a liar.
>
> > Your choice not to come to Capclave is yours and yours alone to
> > make.
>
>Yes, obviously.  I will probably be at this year's Capclave, as I have
>told others I would be there (though I may leave early if I'm made to
>feel unwelcome).  2008, I haven't decided yet.  2009, I definitely
>will not attend if you're in charge.  2010 and later -- if you're in
>charge of 2009, I doubt the question will even come up, as I doubt
>Capclave would still be around.

Oh for Ghod's sake!  Grow up!  Your personal issues with Bill and Elizabeth
do not matter to anyone but you, Bill, Elizabeth, and apparently to
me.  And it mattering to me is just a flaw in my personality.  This is a
tempest in a teapot and trying to make it into something bigger just shows
a lack of maturity.

Well, I was wondering how long it would take for me to lose my patience
with you.  I think I just found out.  You are, of course, welcome in my
home, as is anyone whom the club has not voted to exclude, but I am tired
of your self-pity and paranoia.  You seriously need to consider
counseling.  And people *do* know Bill's character.  They *like* Bill's
character.  Think about that.

>I'm not the only one who chooses whether or not to come to Capclave.
>People, knowing your character, are likely not to come.  Others,
>knowing that their friends won't be attending, won't attend either.
>And it cascades from there.
>
>I've done more than my share to try to save, and to publicize,
>Disclave and Capclave.  This email will probably be my last attempt.
>
>Oh, about that Capclave Wikipedia page I set up?  Someone has flagged
>it as containing unreferenced statements.  I had been meaning to fix
>that.  But I'm not going to bother.  If someone else wants to, go for
>it.  If not, it will soon be automatically deleted.

Candy
(301)345-6635