Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:25:45 -0400
From: "Mike B." <yahoo at omniphile.com>
To: wsfa-forum at yahoogroups.com, WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net
Subject: [WSFA] Re: [wsfa-forum] Scalzi & Pipe
Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net>

mark wrote:
> Mike B. wrote:
>> mark wrote:

>>> All I can make from your statement is that as soon as they
>>> see you, the hostage takers decide to die, and take their hostages and everyone
>>> they can with them, producing death, but not their original goal (whatever that
>>> was) in taking the hostages in the first place.
>> You see, that's where you went wrong.  That's not what I was suggesting
>> at all.  Expand your horizons.  Consider new concepts.  Think outside
>> the box of conventional thought.  They take hostages, and I
>> flame/gas/nuke the place.  End of problem...and much less chance of
>> anyone taking hostages again, hence "very few hostage situations".  My
>> tagline was a hint BTW.
>
> That's stupid. Furthermore, it's demonstrably false: for example, Krygyzstan
> the other day.

Not stupid, and it works pretty well for the Israelis.  Their policy is
that they don't negotiate with terrorists, they do kill them, and while
they will try to minimize collateral damage, they consider everyone in
Israel to be part of the defense forces and if some are hurt or killed
in a fight with the enemy, that's regrettable, but acceptable.  They
don't get a lot of hijackings or the sort of hostage situations you
refer to as a result.  Far fewer than, say, we have had.

I suspect it's because with us the bad guys can expect to get a lot of
publicity, hold out for days at least, get some bragging rights, and
then surrender or go out in a blaze of glory for yet more publicity.
With the Israelis there will be little publicity, no grandstanding, and
a short life...so what's the point?

The Israeli method also motivates the hostages to be pro-active in their
own release if at all possible...to avoid being in the middle of the
(brief) firefight when they storm the place.

How many hostages were taken against Ghengis Khan?  Taammerlane?
Stallin?  The Klingons or Romulans?

Don't follow the reference to Krygyzstan...has there been a hostage
situation there recently?  All I've heard about is the government
killing protesters and ending up out of the country as a result of the
reaction to that.  If that's what you meant, it's not at all an
analogous situation.  Use of deadly force against protesters is very
different from use of deadly force in a hostage situation.

-- Mike B.