Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:59:22 -0400 From: mark <whitroth at 5-cent.us> To: wsfa-forum at yahoogroups.com CC: Merimde <Merimde at yahoo.com>, WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: [wsfa-forum] News you want to hear about the shutdown.... Reply-To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net> On 10/10/13 18:28, Merimde wrote: e> Can we stop one upping each other over this shutdown. It sucks. But if= you want to argue or whatever please can we do it somewhere else. Otherwi= se I am not sure I want to stay on this list serve. It serves no point or relation to wsfa topics. > Sure. I'll quit now. If Mike B, or anyone, wants to continue, they can em= ail me directly. mark > Jenney > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2013, at 6:22 PM, "Mike B." <yahoo at omniphile.com> wrote: > >> On 10/10/2013 5:52 PM, mark wrote: >>> On 10/10/13 17:39, Mike B. wrote: >>>> On 10/10/2013 2:38 PM, mark wrote: >>>>> I was at a rally downtown this morning, here in DC, set up by the >>>>> House Progressive Caucus, and one of the speakers... Nancy >>>>> Pelosi, maybe... announced that, as of this morning, all but 300 >>>>> of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's employees are now >>>>> furloughed. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and so is most of the FAA, so no one is inspecting planes >>>>> for air-worthiness, checking that pilots and crew have enough >>>>> rest, and Boeing's got planes to deliver... and they're sitting >>>>> on the ramp, because there's no one to inspect them. >>>> >>>> Aircraft inspections are done by A&P mechanics, who are certified >>>> by the FAA for signing off on the airworthiness of aircraft. The >>>> FAA sets the standards, and tests applicants for certifications, >>>> but doesn't handle inspection of each and every aircraft at each >>>> and every inspection...and airliners don't get inspections at >>>> periodic intervals like your average private plane...they are >>>> handled under on-going maintenance plans as certified by the FAA at >>>> the time they are set up. >>>> >>>> So who told you Boeing can't deliver an aircraft because the FAA >>>> was closed? >>> >>> I don't remember if it was a Congressman, or someone who works for >>> the FAA. He said they can't inspect the aircraft, so they're not >>> certified yet. And the FAA ain't signing off on *anything*, because >>> of lack of staff. >> >> Then lets gets some facts, and lose the hear-say: >> >> http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/aw_ov= erview/ >> "Who is authorized to issue an FAA airworthiness certificate? >> Only FAA Aviation Safety Inspectors and authorized Representatives of >> the Administrator (i.e.Designees), as defined in 14 CFR Part 183, >> "Representatives of the Administrator", are authorized to issue an FAA= >> airworthiness certificate." >> >> http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=ed24b875afec269ddb= d81b9bf1629f60&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:3.0.1.5.33.3.3.7&idno=1= 4 >> "Title 14: Aeronautics and Space >> PART 183=97REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ADMINISTRATOR Subpart C=97Kinds of >> Designations: Privileges =A7 183.33 Designated Airworthiness >> Representative. >> >> A Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR) may, within limits >> prescribed by and under the general supervision of the Administrator, >> do the following: >> >> (a) Perform examination, inspection, and testing services necessary to= >> issue, and to determine the continuing effectiveness of, certificates,= >> including issuing certificates, as authorized by the Director of >> Flight Standards Service in the area of maintenance or as authorized b= y >> the Director of Aircraft Certification Service in the areas of >> manufacturing and engineering. >> >> (b) Charge a fee for his or her services. >> >> (c) Perform authorized functions at any authorized location. >> >> (Secs. 313(a), 314, 601, 603, 605, and 1102, Federal Aviation Act of >> 1958, as amended (49 U.S.C. 1354(a), 1355, 1421, 1423, 1425, and >> 1502); sec.6(c) Department of Transportation Act (49 U.S.C. 1655(c))) >> >> [Doc. No. 23140, 48 FR 16179, Apr. 14, 1983, as amended by Amdt. >> 183-9, 54 FR 39296, Sept. 25, 1989; Amdt. 183-11, 67 FR 72766, Dec. 6,= >> 2002]" >> >> So, unless Boeing has neglected to employ, and can not locate a >> non-government employee "Designee" with the appropriate >> certification(s) to do the airworthiness inspections, there's nothing >> about the FAA shutdown that interferes with them getting airworthiness= >> certificates for new aircraft so they can sell them. >> >> The design of the aircraft was certified before manufacturing >> started...the FAA supervises that process, but Boeing performs >> it...basically they have to build prototypes and then put them through= >> a long and costly set of tests and trials to show they meet FAA >> standards. That happens before production starts. >> >> The production process is also certified by the FAA, but performed by >> Boeing. Every step and material and material source is specified, >> tested and approved, and must be adhered to for the resulting produced= >> aircraft to be covered by the above design testing and certification. >> >> Once you get all that done you can build aircraft. Each one has to be= >> certified as airworthy, but not by FAA personnel necessarily, as the >> above FAA regulation quotes show. >> >> The FAA doesn't have nearly enough personnel to handle all the >> aircraft in the USA even if it wanted to. Any time maintenance (beyon= d >> pilot tasks like adding engine oil or putting air in the tires) is don= e >> on an aircraft the airworthiness certificate becomes invalid until a >> certified A&P (or similar for instruments and electronics) tech signs >> the aircraft log book certifying that it is airworthy. >> >> It's all in the FAA regulations, which are available on-line and in >> book form. No need to listen to congressmen or random FAA employees. >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> > -- "I am glad to know that there is a system of labor where the laborer can strike if he wants to. I wish to God that such a system prevailed all ove= r the world." - Abraham Lincoln, speech, Mar. 5, 1860