From: "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl at KeithLynch.net> To: WSFA members <WSFAlist at KeithLynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: Voyager 1 anniversary Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:29:28 -0400 (EDT) "Mike B." <omni at omniphile.com> wrote: > Thanks, Keith!=C2=A0 Those figures really re-inforce what Douglas > Adams w= rote: ... You're welcome. I used that quote just a few weeks ago on another list, in response to someone suggesting that starships would collide with planets that aren't in any solar systems: From: "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl at KeithLynch.net> Subject: [WSFA] Re: Lots of smaller 'Ronin' (sun-less/ejecta) planets Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:10:24 -0400 (EDT) > FYI -- And we thought that Earth's orbits were getting full of > space junk... > I can envision 'Star Trek'-like starships ending up like > windshield-splatted bugs in picoseconds... "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." -- Douglas Adams A collision in interplanetary space is extremely unlikely. James White wrote a novel titled _Deadly Litter_, in which littering in space is a serious crime, since a collision at interplanetary speeds with a single discard coffee ground would wreck a spaceship. I did the math. Collisions in low Earth orbit are an issue, Collisions in interplanetary space are not. If I recall correctly, I determined that if every person who ever lived had a spaceship and traveled at random in the solar system, spending all their time tossing coffee grounds overboard, and kept doing so until the sun turned into a red giant in a few billion years, there would probably not be a single collision. This was partly because the speeds all exceeded solar system escape velocity, so the litter wouldn't accumulate. Debris in the asteroid belt would be a much bigger concern, since there's more of it and since it doesn't dissipate. But even though there are trillions of unmapped objects there big enough to destroy any space probe, not one of the probes that's been sent through the belt has been damaged, and probably none ever will. And the "ronin" planets aren't in interplanetary space, but in interstellar space, which is a couple dozen orders of magnitude larger. A chance collision in interstellar space, even with a grain of sand, is absurdly unlikely. If there was much stuff there, we couldn't see very far, but in most directions we can see all the way to the cosmic horizon. Mankind has sent five probes into interstellar space. (Whether any of them have reached it yet depends on your definition, but they'll all get there eventually.) It's interesting to think about how any of them could be someday detected by aliens, or, conversely, how our own remote descendants could ever detect similar probes from other solar systems. Suppose every one of the ~10^11 stars launched, over its lifetime, a thousand Voyager-like probes into random interstellar trajectories, all of which will forever remain within the galaxy. How would an advanced civilization go about finding any of them? (Not counting ones that had been launched in the past thousand years or so, hence were still close to their parent star.) Unless there's some completely unknown science, the best way seems to be radar. To have a reasonable chance of success, most of the mass of the galaxy would have to be turned into search ships, and every one of them would have to have a radar so powerful that not only would we have already picked it up if it was operating anywhere in the universe in our past light cone, Marconi would have picked it up too. > A handful of free-floating planetary-mass objects have been > discovered by infrared surveys of young stellar clusters and > star-forming regions as well as wide-field surveys, but these > studies are incomplete for objects below five Jupiter masses. I'd bet that those studies are incomplete for objects above five Jupiter masses, too. .... Any novel, movie, or short story that depicts a chance meeting in interstellar space, unless it has some kind of explanation such as an infinite improbability drive, I will not waste my time finishing. Life is too short to waste reading authors who think space is just like the Atlantic Ocean only dryer. > Traveling for 40 years, currently moving away at 17 km/sec, and it's > STILL not even 1 light-day away!=C2=A0 Wow. And for most of those 40 years it was going faster than that. It's fun to do math, if only just to get a feel for the sizes of things. I've discovered lots of unexpected things. For instance: The average person generates more heat than the sun, per unit mass per unit time, by a factor of about ten thousand. Similarly per unit volume per unit time, since people have about the same density as the sun. Our galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter, and about 1000 light years thick, and masses hundreds of billions of times more than our solar system. What is its average *area* density? In other words, what if you flattened those 1000 light years into a thin uniform sheet? I calculated that it would have about the same area density as a potato chip. If it *was*, in fact, a potato chip, it would have about 10^48 dietary calories. To burn them off you'd have to walk about 10^27 light years, i.e. walk to the furthest known galaxy and back about 10^17 (100 quadrillion) times (ignoring the expansion of the universe). The sun radiates about 4*10^26 watts, mostly as visible light. If it was in the form of gravitational waves instead, all those watts of power could go through you without hurting you. The most powerful event ever detected was gravitational wave radiation from two black holes merging 1.3 billion light years away. It was 3.6E+49 watts, i.e. 200 solar masses per second annihilated. If it had been visible light, it would have not just been bright enough to see from here, it would have been bright enough to read by. (In Planck units, however, that power is only about 0.001.) Although it lasted less than a tenth of a second, if we'd been able to catch and store all that energy, it would have powered our civilization for about 10^28 years, i.e. about a million trillion times longer than the lifetime of the universe so far. Or if it all went to me, I could use it to heat my room for 10^38 years, or to run my laptop computer for 10^39 years. Interstellar distances are long, but not incomprehensibly so. The total distance cars have driven is in the hundreds of light years. But don't get too proud of our technology; the total distance ants have crawled is certainly in the billions of light years at least. About half a century ago ago, I found some fossils that I recognized as dating to the Ordovician period. The time since the Ordovician is to half a century what half a century is to how much time? How long would it take to send everything on the Internet in Morse code with a hand key? How fast would standard punched paper tape have to move for it to be possible to play high definition video from it? Ignoring, once again, the expansion of the observable universe, suppose you were to travel to the far end of it, not at walking speed, but at the speed at which a stalactite grows. And then move over by a centimeter and head back at the same speed, past your starting point, until you've reached the opposite end of the observable universe. And then repeat the process, again and again, until you've visited every cubic centimeter. Consider that it's absurdly easy to accidentally write a computer program that would take much longer than that to finish. Also see https://what-if.xkcd.com And please turn off the MIME. Thanks. Does anyone have a current email address for Eric Jablow? Thanks.